A Man Stands Tall

[Reilley]

When you find yourself all alone
and the way before you is not clear,
if you are willing to pay the high cost,
willing to swallow the yellow knot of fear,
when angels have left you without a guide
and demons have all drawn close and near –
a male who would be a man stands tall.

When a sister finds herself lost
in emotional hurt, pain and crying,
when a brother stumbles and falls
no matter how hard he might be trying,
when a parent faces their fears
of being alone and finally dying -
a male who would be a man stands tall.

If he has a tender giving heart
and a clear and open mind,
with a willingness to heal,
and the strength to be forever kind,
when presented with others faults
makes the choice to be fault-blind -
a male who would be a man stands tall.

And the circle will forever grow
while the wound of enmity mends,
the bloodied warriors will finally pause
and recognize those who would be friends,
the music starts, the dance begins
the killing finally ends -
a male who would be a man stands tall.

A male who would be a man stands tall.

[Fire Monkey]

I first must ask if there was something in particular that caused you to write this poem. Also, am I correct that it is intentionally gender specific? I ask the second question because in this day and age it seems there is such a push to make everything gender neutral that sometimes people forget that there are times when a person actually wants to say something to one gender or the other and I am assuming that is the case here. In fact, that specific point is why I wondered what was behind writing the poem, not that there needs to be anything specific, just seemed to feel that way.

OK, as for the poem itself, it is solid in general, but the final stanza could use a bit of work - the rhythm seemed to be a bit weak on it - not exactly wrong, just not as strong as in the rest. Other than that, the thoughts carry themselves but while the poem presents them just fine, it doesn't really add to the words, which in general is fine, I suppose, but I know you to be an excellent poet so I guess have higher expectations. Still, over all, even with these two observations, I'd say the poem is good.

[Brigid Briton]

Hi Chris,

With regard to Tim's question to you, I don't object to the gender specificity of this. After all, a female will never be "a man" (with the exception of transgender people of course). My question is a bit broader than Tim's. And that is, what does it mean, exactly to "stand tall"?

You enumerate different situations where caring, sensitivity, bravery, etc, are called for without mentioning what a man would do, other than "standing tall". What each verse created for me was the unfortunate image of a man, faced a variety of difficult situations, pulling him up to his full height, period.

"Standing tall" seems to violate one of poetry's cardinal rules and that is avoiding the cliché. (I'm also wondering, with tongue in cheek, what those who are "vertically challenged" would think of "standing tall" as the definition of being a man, when they are physically incapable of accomplishing that act.)

Your heart is in the right place and I get what you're saying, it's just that I think that "standing tall" is not the best way of expressing it.

Brigid

[Daniel Mark Extrom]

Hi Reilley,

Here is what I took from this:

There are two aspects or themes, running seemingly in conflict, but not really.  That is (and I say this as someone who loved and played a lot of sports under a lot of coaches, and heard a lot of pep talks in person, and heard and hear the voices of the former athletes as the color commentators on radio and TV), men grow up hearing a lot of "cliches" that are indeed sports (or "battle" related).  "Tough it out."  "Be a man."  "What are you? A girl?" (heard at football practices frequently--I doubt a female coach ever said "Are you a man?" with a negative tone to her athletes!!!). "When the going gets tough, the tough  get going" (made famous by John Belushi in "Animal House"). And so on. And we get strong and silent or not-so-silent heroes:  Clint Eastwood; John Wayne; George Patton: who all talk tough, and almost act like they don't give a shit what anyone else thinks or does: they are real men and do whatever they want, and damn those who would criticize. And we think that's kind of cool, especially when pretty girls seem to think so too! Which they do, in the movies, but usually only for tall ("men who stand tall"!!), good looking men.  It really doesn't work well for short guys who don't have deep voices: ask Woody Allen.)

And we think this is how we are supposed to be, because we think all "real men" are like this, all the time.

These same kinds of cliches ("pep talks") have been shouted at soldiers in training and in battle for hundreds or thousands (Achilles, for example; Biblical David, for example) of years, no doubt.  So there is a pressure to "stand tall" and "to be a man," under all circumstances.

Yet at the same time, and now more than ever, we are told to be empathetic, to care, to help those who can't help themselves, though we are taught to always help our own self because real men don't need such help from others. We help others, partly by fighting battles against other males (often through proxies: our youth, who have also heard the cliches and go on later to spout them too, if they survive the battles they were sent to, but I digress.)

And so, when the "alpha males" all gather in one place such as a place of power (sports, politics, churches (yes) we are convinced that testosterone must, must, rule, and there is no room for empathy because power must prevail. Real men stand tall, they (we) think. Because that is what they've always been taught. That's the "real man" role model.

And I think Reilley's point is this: Real men try to stand tall, and often do, and this is commendable, especially when confronting one's own fears; when helping others to overcome their fears; when recognizing that even strangers might have problems that we can't see and we should therefore not be so quick to judge them negatively. 

And finally, and most important, he is saying that when "real men" start to stop acting like "alpha males" (all of them, not just one or two), maybe the world really can become a kinder and gentler place. Only then will those men really and truly be "standing tall."  A cliche, of course, but anything else would be a cliche too.  Men are almost all cliches, and we say them to ourselves because we have heard them all our lives. (Women: watch a football game or even a golf match (a gentle sport, if there is one), and listen for the "battle" cliches, the "tough" cliches, the "guts" cliches. Count them. You might be amazed. And as women take on more positions of power and influence in our world (and they are, and I am happy that they are because "real men" have been messing things up for a long time, and often have no real bona fides, except maybe the biggest guns or muscles), it will be interesting to see how the world changes, and how women change too. And actually, how men change too.)

And so I see this as a call for "peace" (also a cliche, sadly), that will not happen as long as "real men" are always throwing their testosterone around i.e.,  viewing every interaction with others as a proving ground of strength and power, instead of trying to find common sense and practical solutions that will benefit not just a few, but even those who sadly lack the testosterone of the arrogant alpha males. Reilley is saying, I think, that "real men" "stand tall" by not succumbing to the pressure to act like a "big dog" and bully other "big dogs" but instead try to find a practical way to good and fair solutions to problems. I don't know how one would say this without the use of cliche, but maybe that's because I'm a man, or at least male.

And that's why I think he repeated the line at the end. 

Okay, I'm done!  Peace!

[Brigid Briton]

Hi Dan,

I think what Chris is saying is pretty clear. In poetry, I believe the way an idea is expressed is as important as the idea itself. And, as I said, I think Chris' heart is in the right place. While clichés abound in sports, board rooms, and every day language, as shorthand for what we really mean, the poet's job is to figure out ways of expressing ideas without resorting to clichés.

I don't believe that clichés are more prevalent among males than females. We all use them, all the time.

I do think that this discussion is going way beyond the scope of Chris' poem so will ask that further comments in this thread be limited to the merits or Chris' poem, which has a lot of them.

If you, or anyone, would like to start a thread on the subject of the use of clichés in poetry and/or in the larger world, please start a thread in the Poet's Community Center section.

And Chris:  I know that you are an accomplished (and much published) poet, so I would love to get your feedback on my observations about your use of cliché in this piece.

Brigid

[Fire Monkey]

An interesting interpretation of the poem Dan - I suspect you are at least in general correct though I'm not certain on some of the specifics - I think there was some of your personal views coming through ... which is of course one of the things a poem naturally causes because if it doesn't bring anything up from the reader then I have to wonder.

I tend, in general, to agree with Brigid about the use of clichés, but I think there are times when they are valid in a poem as a way to point at an attitude or prevalent thought which is typically expressed in those clichés. It isn't so much the poet trying to use a shorthand as it is them identifying those who do.

In this case, though I am not 100% sure, I think it may be one where the cliché is valid for the poem because it is not being used so much as a cliché but rather as an identification of all those who have gone before with words of advice about what being a man is all about - I think [and I admit I am not absolutely certain on this] that by using the phrase "A man stands tall" he is taking the old ideas and replacing them with the new.

That is to say, it's a cliché phrase that has long been used to mean a set of behaviours which may not all be good and desirable but here in this poem the set of behaviours that are suggested seem to be ones that are gentler and compassionate and caring - which I know I don't normally associate with the way the phrase is typically used so to me it seems that it's like the poem is taking an old cliché and loading in a new and better set of meanings. However, we must wait to hear from Reilley to be sure

[Reilley]

Hi guys!

Wow, what a great discussion / dissection of the concepts in my little poem. This is the kind of thing that this forum really excels at. :-)

OK, so first of all, the Man Stands Tall comes partly from my daughter and mostly from my grandmother. She had a lot of aphorisms, and I loved it when she used them to share some of her ideas, she often said, "A boy becomes a man when a man is needed, there are boys out there 65 years old because they never had to be a man." and "The meek will inherit the earth. That's because being meek means being stronger than you need to be, and wearing it on the inside, not the outside." "“Stand tall, smile bright, and let them wonder what secrets are making you laugh!” And one of my favorites, "When elephants fight, only the grass gets hurt."

She is the one who taught me that Life may not be the party we asked for, but we might as well dance while we are here, and to never piss in a well because you never know when you might need a drink.

My youngest asked me a question not long ago while doing Social Studies homework what it was that makes a man a man. Is it just turning eighteen and growing strong and tall? And I told her, without any reflection, than a man is never so tall as when he kneels to hug a child. Then I said “Stand tall, smile bright, and let them wonder what secrets are making you laugh!” This caused a lot of those sayings to flood in on me, and I shared many of the feeling in the poem and my grandmothers aphorisms. We both sort of came to the conclusion that the stronger you are, the less you needed to show how strong you are, and you could stand tall, no matter your stature.


Next day I came up with this.

[Brigid Briton]

Hi Chris,

I'm glad you weighed in on this. You have a wonderful wealth of stories about your family. I would really love to read a poem about a man who never stands so tall as when he kneels to hug a child! That may be an aphorism, but it is not a cliché. I think all of us are better people for having listened to and absorbed our grandmothers' wisdom.

Brigid