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Post by dustandwater on Oct 14, 2011 22:09:40 GMT -6
Heatherwordbender,
I'm happy to see that you've done some independant research.
We're not really following the court Tanka here though. This was a period when the Tanka became very popular. It was used in the courts and many competitions, lead by the state even, were conducted for Tanka writing.
During this period, many of the 'rules' of original 'lovers' Tanka' were shed in order to make the poems more family friendly. Now, they often alluded to the empire and other patriotic themes.
I skipped this area of history in my introduction because I was hoping to stay with the earlier, more secretive form, which was, in my opinion, a little more sentimental. With the spread of Tanka through the courtyards, I feel the form was watered down somewhat. There's nothing wrong, as I said, with modernising the form; I was just hoping here that we could follow the tradition a little closer.
Largely, as I mentioned in my intro, the reason I wanted to stay with that point of the form's history is because I like the romantic background. The Tanka read in courts and written for competitions are much more 'commercial' and lack the same sentiment, I feel.
-D&W
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 14, 2011 22:29:39 GMT -6
This is the first time any real discussion about a form has arisen. I like it! What do others think about the modernisation of the Tanka? heatherwordbender, having read your link,, I wanted to copy this here for any that didn't choose to read the article because I think it says beautifully what Tanka should achieve. It touches also on what douglassguy said earlier, on the Tanka. "In going beyond the experience of the moment, the tanka takes us from delight to fulfillment, from insight to comprehension, and psycho-organism to love; in general, from the spontaneous to the measured. To achieve this requires a fundamental shift in emphasis : from glimpse to gaze , from first sight to exploration, … from awareness to perspective… to compose a tanka is to articulate reflectively… it takes us from the simple to the complex. More pointedly, it moves us from the poetry of the noun to the poetry of the verb; in weaving terms, from the thread to the tapestry; in botanical terms, from seed to plant, in chemical terms, from element to compound ; in painting terms, from sketch to picture; and in musical terms from chord to melody."
(Gerald St. Maur) You can see here then, how the Tanka is considered by some as a development on, a step beyond, the Haiku. While Haiku is an observation, a statement, brief, the Tanka is a contemplation, a reflection, complex. -D&W
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Post by diannet on Oct 14, 2011 22:40:42 GMT -6
Dust and water, I have completed what I hope is a more traditional form. I have really enjoyed this and for me I must say I like the idea of the traditional aspects of both this form and haiku, there is a lovely delicacy about them. The night heron calls haunting distant and alone from a lost summer standing vigil he searches for a glimmer of our hearts
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 14, 2011 22:49:18 GMT -6
diannet,
another great poem and this time, a brilliant Tanka, I think.
As with Brigid's, I think your seasonal reference is a rather saddening one; the 'lost summer' hints at the 'honeymoon period' of a relationship, maybe - a suggestion that the happiest of times are behind.
I always like bird references (I never make them myself as I am utterly ignorant to bird types and 'lifestyles') and think they work brilliantly in the Japanese forms.
I'm glad you enjoyed the traditional elements too. It's really that that I hope to emphasise with these focus sessions.
Between you and me, I think you could do wonders with this form. As a further, personal challenge, try to develop your grasp on the eroticism of the first piece and weave it into a Tanka, if you can.
You've really done well here; I admire your persistence and I love your responses. I really hope to see more Tanka from you in the future... I will be watching
-D&W
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 14, 2011 23:36:53 GMT -6
I will certainly try to write what you are looking for, but am too honest to help stating that I don't feel this specification of being understood by disinterested readers to be between separated lovers (communicating by letter) is inherent to the form. Nor do I see what components you are wanting/considering as traditional as the first major iteration of tanka did not contain nature or lovers, the second contained correspondence between lovers who were writing while apart, the third started incorporating the nature reference of haiku and public(courtly) entertainment. Viz studying the form: I found this discussion which I very much liked concerning tanka. It is the only one I've found which, for me, gives sufficient weight to the Japanese aesthetic. simplyhaiku.theartofhaiku.com/submissions/our-vision/tanka-an-introduction.html It conceptualizes the line length as merely short/long/short long/long And (I think, lost the spot) also the expectation that it should be not more than 2 distinct [utterances]. So a 3 sentence poem does not meet the expectation of greater/lesser or lesser/greater balance of [utterance] {{sentence? Not sure what is the most precise term}}
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 14, 2011 23:56:15 GMT -6
Clouds traverse the skies, roiling wherever they list, uninhibited. Trammelled by circumspection I envy them their passions...
I am somewhat dubious as to whether this contains all of the parts you want to see, but such as it is...
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 14, 2011 23:58:13 GMT -6
heatherwordbender,
that's a great link regarding modern Enlgish language Tanka.
As I stated earlier, being somewhat a traditionalist, I have tried in this session to maintain more of the traditional elements of the Japanese form. As with all Japanese forms, translation into English almost necessitates variation because of the vast differences inherent in the languages.
As with Haiku, the line length (5-7-5 syllables (plus 7-7 for Tanka)) becomes less important because syllables in English are not the same thing as 'on' in Japanese. This means that there is some freedom with syllable count that I can't really deny, I was aiming for simplicity with that part of my introduction.
Something that the definition in this link brought to my attention was the use of Enjambment and Caesura. I wasn't aware of this rule, so I'm glad it has come up here that Enjambment is strongly discouraged.
Otherwise, it generally agrees with what I have said thus far concerning form. Being an article on English Tanka, of course it doesn't address the history of the form back at its birth in the Heian period, stating instead that desired content is 'wide open'. Such is the case with modern English language Haiku.
heatherwordbender, your point about the two phases of the Tanka is quite right. This is generally what I am refering to when I talk about the juxtaposition that Tanka should contain. As with Haiku, there should be a turning point somewhere in the middle of the Tanka that moves us from the emotional element to the physical element, drawing an often unexpected connection between the two.
Once more, I admit to maintaining some of the Japanese traditions in my introduction by way of familiarising people with Tanka in more than a mechanical display of syllables and lines. However, in reality, as I've said previously, one is free to play around with this as an English language variation on the form.
-D&W
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 15, 2011 0:01:31 GMT -6
heatherwordbender, a great second write!
The roaming clouds are a great testament to the freedom conversely inhibited in the lovers.
-D&W
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 15, 2011 0:11:28 GMT -6
The three iterations I mentioned in my (2ce) preceding post are of Japanese traditional tanka. The first came about as it diverged from waka, and is the loosest. Tanka went through a few usage changes, renga being one notable form, before becoming a preferred means of between clandestined lovers (courtesans) and thence became stylized as it eventually became popular to read them aloud and compete as to content and style. The preference for nature references came during the latter part of this period, I believe. Subsequent to this was the development of haiku...which explains why nature is so integral to them.
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 15, 2011 0:27:12 GMT -6
That's not a bad brief of the history of Tanka at all.
All I would note is that the term 'waka' was actually used for the new style of poetry that developed with new written languages as a movement away from 'kanshi' (Chinese-language Japanese poetry) and that Tanka was one of a number of poems under this umbrella term. Most of the other forms withered through lack of popularity and 'waka', which was once a collective term, came to be replaced with Tanka, the main survivor of the original group.
This new written language was first used and popularised by female writers, who wanted their poetry to be more expressive than the Chinese language of the time allowed. It was these women who developed early waka poetry and thus the nature references were actually present before the romance component, which was included when lovers adopted the style and refined the 5-7-5 7-7 Tanka.
-D&W
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 15, 2011 1:34:23 GMT -6
Teehee...As any further refining of the history of the development of Japanese Poetry and orthographies is going to get horribly arcane I am leaving the remainder of the discussion...really how on earth did we get into hiragana from this?? I have exhausted myself reading Japanese Wikipedia
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 15, 2011 1:40:02 GMT -6
Well, I'm glad we did.
It's exactly that exploration of form that I hope for these sessions to achieve.
Thanks for the discourse.
-D&W
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Post by Brigid Briton on Oct 15, 2011 5:03:39 GMT -6
Wow, d&w,
You've really got a great discussion going on here! I thought I'd try another:
bitter winter wind like the voice of a stranger mentioning your name
our summer pleasures buried beneath a blanket of snow
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 15, 2011 9:18:27 GMT -6
Adding here, lest I forget, I discovered last night a developing form of tanka which explores breaking up the components, balancing them differently, much as Douglas(Guy?) has done in his. Hope to get back to that if ever I can find it.
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Post by douglassguy on Oct 15, 2011 21:05:16 GMT -6
In the interest of more deeply exploring the tanka, I've composed three more of them, taking on this discussion's recommendations for a more traditional approach, namely, the piece is intended for an audience of one, the one for whom there is great love and/or longing and who likely (though perhaps not necessarily?) feels the same. I've also incorporated elements of nature and the seasons.
A fence post was knocked down during the last heavy rain. Lambs grazed a new meadow till your spouse fixed the breach where autumn crows now caw.
-----
The ship is moored now, bobbing with the tide but not succumbing to the pull of the current, waving its mast to the sea, "Farewell."
-----
A solar eclipse is a moment of stolen night. Animals and lakes feel the shift like my hand moving across your belly.
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 16, 2011 8:36:05 GMT -6
Tanka, authored by Ariwara no Narihira (825-880) that was included in the Kokin Wakashu, the first Imperial anthology of Japanese poetry, translated by Professor Helen Craig McCullough:
Longer than ever before Is the wisteria’s shadow --- How many are those Who shelter beneath Its blossoms!
Saku hana noo Shita ni aururu Hito omi Arishi ni Masaru Fuji no kage ka mo
The surname Ariwara translates generally to "Pastfield" ...the family was replaced (and completely eclipsed in scope and political power) by the "Wisteriafield" or Fujiwara family. Wisteria are -you know- those delicate, pale lavender flower producing things...beautiful and...relentlessly vining and propagating which will take over everything that surrounds them and choke the life out of it. Lovely things...
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Post by dustandwater on Oct 16, 2011 11:50:40 GMT -6
douglassguy,
great job coming back for another go. Another trio, no less!
I think there was a little too much abstraction in the first set for Tanka; these are definitely more direct.
The first one is a great poem; very subtle in terms of the absence, which I like. It's rather narrative though, which takes away from the juxtaposition too much for Tanka, since the connection between (a) and (b) is laid out plainly. It also might have too many themes running through it; the Tanka should contain an upper and lower phase, each presenting a single theme with a connection between them.
The second may be a little too abstract, provided it is meant to refer to a relationship? If that is the case, a personal pronoun somewhere revealing the metaphor would be nice. Tank discourages complete abstraction. I like the premise though and the personification is brilliantly done. Again, a great five-line poem.
The third is, I think, the best contender for Tanka. As per my recent discovery, I'd remove enjambment, so:
A solar eclipse a moment of stolen night beasts and lakes feel it the subtle shift like my hand it moves across your belly
or something similar. What do you think?
Thanks for persisting, this is exactly what the Form Focus sessions are about.
-D&W
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Post by diannet on Oct 16, 2011 20:56:34 GMT -6
I had a go a re-working the first go...
Our love duets play on a symphony of winds and your hands reach me caresses of springtime days felt in the shifting movements
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 17, 2011 8:36:48 GMT -6
Hoping D&W won't mind my adding this here.
I finally located the term/concept I was looking for, courtesy of a friend. It is "to have 'yoin'" (余韻) or 'leftover rhyme' ...and is an expected component to all but (possibly) the most modern of Japanese verse. It is both similar to and different from our sense of "reading between the lines". The object is to write so that the reader is drawn into forming their own conclusions. In other words filling in the leftover rhyme for themselves. Seeming ambiguity is prized as an aesthetic, as it both avoids overt statement and draws the auditor/reader into full participation.
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Post by heatherwordbender on Oct 17, 2011 8:52:24 GMT -6
Throwing this up here in one last iteration. I think I've found the itch. It was not that I thought it perfect, rather that the 'lack' I saw personally (for want of a better word) did not coincide with what I was hearing.
Stride for stride we've matched and your thoughts slide into mine a continuum - My soul hums with these easy inadvertent harmonies.
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